What is your Favorite Stage?

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

Yeah, I know.

Pivot grab, how do those work again?

Pretty simple, just shift the direction on the control stick to the opposite direction of which you're running, and press z before you turn around. This also works with jumps, so you can also practice RSH Bairs as Yoshi (reverse short-hop back-airs) at the same time. Just improving your accuracy with this will make your abilities with Yoshi increase tenfold

Gotcha! Man, I need to brush up on smash lingo, it's a whole new ball game here.

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

Gotcha! Man, I need to brush up on smash lingo, it's a whole new ball game here.

It is. There were so many things I had to learn, I felt like a total n00b.
There are also so many new techniques, like chain grabs, DACUS, and the proper method of dodging... I'm glad to hear you're improving so much. Progress is exponential if you keep at it (unlike me).

flamemetal3 wrote:

Let mii return this to the topic back to stages. The fast, rushing water in Jungle Japes has its advantages and disadvantages. For one thing, because the water moves so fast, it's pretty much guaranteed that you'll suffer a death if you land anywhere on the left side of the left-most platform. It rushes your character off screen before you can even have time to react. This characteristic of Jungle Japes waters is potentially helpful to you as well. Because the water is right underneath the platforms, it means you can weakly meteor smash someone into the water (on that left side) and they'll be taken to their death. Attacks like Kirby's Dair and Yoshi's Dair with weak meteor smash properties (which don't usually automatically kill) can actually be deadly in this stage because of this strategy. These attacks are easier to connect with than meteor smashes and spikes (usually) so take advantage of that.
The other potential use of the water is to use it when you are on the right side of the stage. The fast movement of the water will take you to the other sides of the stage with quickness in case you need to make an escape from a group that's coming to attack you. It will also switch up the battle's momentum since you are now in a new space which lets you set up for your other attacks. Flowing safely down under is much better than trying to air dodge to the middle. Pull up to the middle platform left edge or the left platforms right edge for best results (safest, cause you don't want to accidentally miss the left edge of the last platform and then fall to be taken away out of bounds).

Well, well, talking all about the usefulness of meteor smashes (which I will be referring to as spikes just to shorten the length of this post) on Jungle Japes, huh? There's good points, but you've missed a lot. Riding the water under the stage can be a recovery tactic, but it's generally too slow to mindgame anyone, and you're always risking that pesky Klaptrap to come up and pull you down, sacrificing a whole stock. Now, JJ can be different from other water levels in that it's the only stage where you could actually "water gimp" someone, basically spiking them into the water while they are already in, causing the resurface animation, which is extremely slow for most characters and will bring them straight to death when cramped up against the left side of the stage (which is what I believe you were talking about). But any gimping move can still work charms here, so spiking is generally that necessary. Though this stage is probably the one you'll be getting the most spikes on. And another thing, I still am not fond of Falco's extreme ease-of-movement-style on this stage. He can Phantasm straight into a ledgegrab, which is incredibly irritating for any land-based fighters that may face him on the stage. He's got lasers that can fit across every platform without much effort as well, so he can be as campy as he wants on this stage. I would suggest banning this stage (if it is a viable CP) whenever versing a Falco, especially if he knows his stages. I can continue for a while on how Falco controls JJ above nearly every character, but I think I'll leave it at that.

Jungle Japes is definitely unique in its spiking properties, but generally knocking your opponent into the water and pursuing is the path to an easy kill. If you have any speed/quick aerials/good jumping abilities, gimping should be a breeze for you. Just watch out that you don't accidentally fall in anywhere on the left side, or the shoe will end up on the other foot in no time (and subsequently up your ***).
The main stage I have beef with is Rainbow Cruise. I would ban it over just about any stage, unless I were going up against a heavy or slow character. MK reigns supreme here, although most players will naturally shy away from it because it is a moving stage. If your opponent uses MK and knows what he is doing, this will more than likely be the stage to avoid at all costs.

Melee stages just moved too much for my taste, I like to keep things mostly static. Sure, these stages open up new tactics, but I always feel like it would have been different (and better) if nothing had held us back from each other. Hence, FD as my stage of choice.

Quote :

Now, JJ can be different from other water levels in that it's the only stage where you could actually "water gimp" someone,

What does JJ mean?

Using Falco at Jungle Japes sure has its advantages I see. But for some reason I like using Sheik when I'm there. And just recently added Toon Link to my uses.

flamemetal3 wrote:

Quote :

Now, JJ can be different from other water levels in that it's the only stage where you could actually "water gimp" someone,

What does JJ mean?

Using Falco at Jungle Japes sure has its advantages I see. But for some reason I like using Sheik when I'm there. And just recently added Toon Link to my uses.

JJ = Jungle Japes

A lot of the Melee stages were actually pretty balanced and fun, but were scrapped for Brawl stages with similar designs. Take Fountain of Dreams for instance: it was great fun, and the platforms allowed for some good timing tactics. However, it was replaced by Spear Pillar and it's moving platforms. Now honestly which would you pick more for brawling on?

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

Melee stages just moved too much for my taste, I like to keep things mostly static. Sure, these stages open up new tactics, but I always feel like it would have been different (and better) if nothing had held us back from each other. Hence, FD as my stage of choice.

Actually FD does "hold us back from each another" How so you ask?
Well it doesn't influence any air game its just a boring old ground match...
No real talent or strategies to play there (My Opinion) That is why I think its a n00bs' playground. (Again Also MY Opinion)

AngryBadger wrote:

Actually FD does "hold us back from each another" How so you ask?
Well it doesn't influence any air game its just a boring old ground match...
No real talent or strategies to play there (My Opinion) That is why I think its a n00bs' playground. (Again Also MY Opinion)

I would never disagree, it doesn't offer the best air game in any way. But the thing is, I'm not 100% satisfyed with Brawl's stages. Most of them get like 90% or something, for various reasons. Smashville is probably the most balanced stage, but I wish the moving platfrom didn't go over the edge. A n00b's playground? If that's what you think, I would never even attempt to change your opinion, brawlers are already dead set on their opinions on these things. But it offers enough space with nothing to blame for your losses but your own lack of skills (or lag, of course).

It's not Melee's stages I have a problem with... it's Melee's stages in Brawl.

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

It's not Melee's stages I have a problem with... it's Melee's stages in Brawl.

The problem is that they were too lazy to remake the stages for Brawl, so they just copied them from Melee. The physics engine was changed in brawl, as were several other things, including character size. The characters are bigger in comparison to the Melee stages, which were either smaller to begin with or had to be shrunk to fit into the stage size limits of Brawl (something I find doubtful).
They did a pretty good job with ones mentioned, like Jungle Japes and Green Greens, but others turned out horrendously (Big Blue and Temple).

The problem I have with FD is that it has nowhere to hide from projectiles except the ledges, but if you ledge camp you're going to get flagged for stalling. The scenic background also makes for some hellacious WiFi lag. Just one more reason to default Battlefield.

Bah, battlefield is good but everything's so close together- the platforms are too cramped, and the stage base is too small. Maybe I spend too much time reviewing custom stages, but it bothers me that with all the tools in the world to make the most balanced stage they could they slightly bothced even so simple a design.

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

AngryBadger wrote:

Actually FD does "hold us back from each another" How so you ask?
Well it doesn't influence any air game its just a boring old ground match...
No real talent or strategies to play there (My Opinion) That is why I think its a n00bs' playground. (Again Also MY Opinion)

I would never disagree, it doesn't offer the best air game in any way. But the thing is, I'm not 100% satisfyed with Brawl's stages. Most of them get like 90% or something, for various reasons. Smashville is probably the most balanced stage, but I wish the moving platfrom didn't go over the edge. A n00b's playground? If that's what you think, I would never even attempt to change your opinion, brawlers are already dead set on their opinions on these things. But it offers enough space with nothing to blame for your losses but your own lack of skills (or lag, of course).

It's not Melee's stages I have a problem with... it's Melee's stages in Brawl.

Well did I mention its the most lagged out stage on WiFi? Well now i did

Trust me I can find some other thing to blame my loss on

AngryBadger wrote:

Trust me I can find some other thing to blame my loss on

Hm, fair enough. I'm learning that's part of the fun of battling with friends.

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

AngryBadger wrote:

Trust me I can find some other thing to blame my loss on

Hm, fair enough. I'm learning that's part of the fun of battling with friends.

It is, because friends generally aren't contemptuous. We all understand the trials and tribulations of lag, controllers, and lag. Another thing to consider; hands get cold! My fingers were freezing the other day.
So long as it's not someone consistently losing and still insisting they're the best, there really isn't any johning here. And nobody currently here is like that, so the battles are all the more fun.
The real problem is brawling Badger live...

flamemetal3 wrote:

What is it that makes our laggy connections? Because there was a time when AngryBadger and I had the most horrific Lag ever, but then the next time wii played as a group, wii had a decent non-lagful connection.

I wonder this all the time, I guess it just has it's good days and its bad days. I usually have a better connection in random team matches from people all over the world than with some of you guys, it baffles me.

The flashy background of Final Destination does give the game more to work for, but I think all of the stages have some type of movement in either the background or the foreground, so it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

flamemetal3 wrote:

What is it that makes our laggy connections? Because there was a time when AngryBadger and I had the most horrific Lag ever, but then the next time wii played as a group, wii had a decent non-lagful connection.

I wonder this all the time, I guess it just has it's good days and its bad days. I usually have a better connection in random team matches from people all over the world than with some of you guys, it baffles me.

The flashy background of Final Destination does give the game more to work for, but I think all of the stages have some type of movement in either the background or the foreground, so it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

WiFi is WiFi. It has its good times, it has its bad times. It is essentially just an internet connection, which I hope we can all agree isn't as consistent as we'd like.

The rendering of Smashville's platform is nothing compared to the intricate kaleidescope of Final Destination's background. All stages are laggy, but FD more so. I've never really tried it in lag, but I'd imagine moving stages are the middle ground, as well as gimmicky ol' Spear Pillar. Laggy at times, not too bad most of the time. Battlefield is more consistent than FD, YI, and SV. I don't know why, but it has rung true for me so far. The prettier the stage, the more the lag.

Smashville also has to deal with changing character expressions, moving items in the sky and ground below (the ocean constantly moves, and random objects flit in and out, like Pete or Gulliver's UFO), plus it has to check the Wii for time of day and react accordingly (just curious, does it take the host's time to determine the setting for Smashville). I'm not saying all of this equals the glory of traveling through Final Destination, but it is something to consider.

Battlefield is one of the few stages that has different lighting engines that change through out a match, although I imagine that isn't too hard to pull off. The difference of lag there compared to anywhere else has been minute in my experience.

TheDarkPlumber2.0 wrote:

Smashville also has to deal with changing character expressions, moving items in the sky and ground below (the ocean constantly moves, and random objects flit in and out, like Pete or Gulliver's UFO), plus it has to check the Wii for time of day and react accordingly (just curious, does it take the host's time to determine the setting for Smashville). I'm not saying all of this equals the glory of traveling through Final Destination, but it is something to consider.

Battlefield is one of the few stages that has different lighting engines that change through out a match, although I imagine that isn't too hard to pull off. The difference of lag there compared to anywhere else has been minute in my experience.

Lag is lag, regardless of the stage. If a connection is bad, a connection is bad. Some stages just exacerbate the problem though, making things painful for all parties involved. FD does seem to be laggier, but it might just be completely mental. For all we know it is just a rumor started by someone johning about FD, but regardless I notice it.
The main thing is when I practice techniques and spacing live, then go into WiFi there is always terrible button lag regardless. You basically have to predict your opponent, as well as whether or not your character is going to respond to your input. I don't like it.

flamemetal3 wrote:

Hmhm, what's brawling Badger like in person?
I never thought about FD being so laggy because of its background, why would that make it laggy? Because the disk has to load or something? I think Battlefield is the most laggy, but that's just my opinion (quote Badger : )-). Smashville is ultimate, but that platform really does move far off the sides, just a little too much. What is it that makes our laggy connections? Because there was a time when AngryBadger and I had the most horrific Lag ever, but then the next time wii played as a group, wii had a decent non-lagful connection. I wonder...

Well in general when there are more people playing online the laggier it is. I bet that time me and you were brawling everyone and there brother was brawling online

Brawling me offline would probably be one of your worst nightmares

[b]Triforce Of Chozo[/b] wrote:

Lag
is lag, regardless of the stage. If a connection is bad, a connection
is bad. Some stages just exacerbate the problem though, making things
painful for all parties involved. FD does seem to be laggier, but it
might just be completely mental. For all we know it is just a rumor
started by someone johning about FD, but regardless I notice it.
The
main thing is when I practice techniques and spacing live, then go into
WiFi there is always terrible button lag regardless. You basically have
to predict your opponent, as well as whether or not your character is
going to respond to your input. I don't like it.

Most definitely true, BTW I think Battlefield has the least amount of lag and as far as neutral stages go FD has the most lag. (If your counting Lylat Cruise as a neutral then they are about even.)

AngryBadger wrote:

Brawling me offline would probably be one of your worst nightmares

That's pretty funny because that's what I tell everyone (in the neighborhood). It would more like the clash of nightmares, Badger. By the way, your Diddy Kong is absolutely frustrating; throwing bananas, grabbing, & smashing all the time. I'm gonna kick its butt next time I see it.

flamemetal3 wrote:

AngryBadger wrote:

Brawling me offline would probably be one of your worst nightmares

That's pretty funny because that's what I tell everyone (in the neighborhood). It would more like the clash of nightmares, Badger. By the way, your Diddy Kong is absolutely frustrating; throwing bananas, grabbing, & smashing all the time. I'm gonna kick its butt next time I see it.

I'll take that as a compliment but really my Diddy is one of those who are better offline so just imagine that